What If – Suicide Skaven

Grey Seer, General, 4x Spells of Plague, Power Stone, 3x Warpstone Tokens

Grey Seer, 4x Spells of Ruin, Warp Energy Condenser, 4x Warpstone Tokens

Chieftain, BSB, Crown of Command, Shield

Assassin, Weeping Blade, Potion of Strength

Assassin, Blade of Corruption, Other Trickster’s Shard

100 Slaves, musician, spears

100 Slaves, musician, spears

100 Slaves, musician, spears

99 Slaves, musician, spears

99 Slaves, musician, spears

16 Night Runners, Warp-grinder

That’s it.  520 models at 2500 points and everything has a good chance of killing itself.

Combined the Grey Seers have 9-13 warpstone tokens, plus the power stone.  The Condenser should produce 2 extra power dice in the game, which beats the extra warpstone token.  Basically, I can roll a 12 dice magic phase and then extra dice an entire magic phase since I will have at a minimum 11 and at a maximum 15 extra dice.  This is defiantly a closed list event list.

Anyways, the Seers have a good chance of killing themselves, either by taking token wounds with no saves or just because throwing that many dice will see them miscasting a lot.  As the seers are going into the slaves, just losing a combat can kill them as well.  The chieftain would die when his unit fled just due to being a BSB, but the slaves will also kill him…wonder which happens first, lol.  The night runners can be killed by the grinder, as can the assassins if they go into the unit.  Heck, the grinder dies just for walking too far away from the night runners.

Overall, it’s just a list of lol.  I actually think I have the models for it, though I know I don’t have a second painted Seer – but I have a model that can be painted (well, like 3 models, who am I kidding?).  But with unit fillers I’m pretty sure I can field 398 slaves and have the front ranks have a good number of spears in them.  Would need to make 2 more trays though.  Aren’t any closed list events at 2500 in California though.  Maybe I’ll just take it down on a Friday for some fun once this remodel/baby thing gets worked out.

I actually think there are some matchups this army can win, elves without monsters being one of them.  Being able to double 13^th plus plague and other spells every turn gives it a good shot… maybe drop a stone and the condenser for power scroll?  Also considering dropping a whole unit of slaves for some engineers with magic items for some skitterleap suicide fun – doom rocket and brass orb.  Still fits the theme.  That list might look like:

Grey Seer, General, 4x Spells of Plague, Power Stone, 3x Warpstone Tokens

Grey Seer, 4x Spells of Ruin, Power Scroll, 3x Warpstone Tokens

Chieftain, BSB

Assassin, Weeping Blade, Potion of Strength

Assassin, Blade of Corruption, Other Trickster’s Shard

Engineer, Level 1, Forbidden Rod

Engineer, Brass Orb

Engineer, Doom Rocket

100 Slaves, musician, spears

100 Slaves, musician, spears

100 Slaves, musician, spears

19 Night Runners, Warp-grinder

9 Gutter Runners, slings poison

8 Gutter Runners, slings poison

This list still has 306 points in gutter runners that could be another unit of 100 slaves plus change.  Maxed on characters though.  I defiantly have this without unit fillers.

I like the second list better… maybe I’ll take it [or took it?] as the Ringer list to Celesticon.

Thoughts?

What If Warriors of Chaos – 2500 points

This list is an absolute beast.  The concept is already out there, Brian Moyer took it to Adepticon in 2013, but this is my own little flavor of what the internet talks about.

Daemon Prince, chaos armor, daemonic flight, daemon of nurgle, level 2 wizard, lore of death, scaled skin, flaming breath, charmed shield, dragonbane gem, the other trickster’s shard

Chaos Sorceror, mark/steed/lore of slannash, level 2 wizard, tormentor sword, enchanted shield, luckstone, chaos familiar

Chaos Sorceror, mark/disc of tzeentch, lore of metal, level 2 wizard, warrior bane, talisman of preservation, third eye of tzeentch

5 Chaos Warhounds, vanguard

6 Chaos Marauder Horseman, musician, standard bearer, mark of slannash, javelins, flails

6 Chaos Marauder Horseman, musician, standard bearer, mark of slannash, javelins, flails

Chaos Chariot

Chaos Chariot

Chaos Chariot

Chimera, flaming breath, regenerating flesh

Chimera, flaming breath, regenerating flesh

Chimera, flaming breath, regenerating flesh

6 Hellstriders of Slannash, musician, banner

I think this list speaks for itself.  It’s just dumb.

What If Bretonnia – 2500 points

So I don’t always just play around with the best books or the newest books (often the same).  I had been playing with this one for a while.  I’m not fixed on the character magic items, but I do like the spread and speed of the army.

Bretonnian Lord, general, virtue of heroism, sword of striking, charmed shield, dawnstone, the other trickster’s shard, royal Pegasus

Prophetess of the Lady, warhorse, barding, level 4, lore of beasts, silver mirror, talisman of preservation

Paladin, BSB, dragonhelm, luckstone, wyrmlance

Paladin, heartwood lance, enchanted shield, dragonbane gem, royal Pegasus

Paladin, lance, shield

Damsel of the lady, lore of beasts, dispel scroll, barding

9 knights of the Realm, full command, banner of swiftness

8 knights of the Realm, full command, standard of discipline

6 Knights Errant, full command, errantry banner

5 mounted yeoman, musician, banner

5 mounted yeoman, musician, banner

5 mounted yeoman, musician, banner

4 Pegasus Knights, full command

4 Pegasus Knights, full command

While I really like Pegasus knights, they are freaking expensive.  Each of those units is just shy of 250 points.  This really shows how the books are dated.  I think the list probably needs some tweaking, but as I don’t actually plan to play it I’m not too worried.  I’ve seen people play similar lists in the past, though not recently.  I really like the banners on the yeoman, but I do play in events that reward mobile fortitude/command.

What If High Elves – 2500 points

I have been playing around with High Elves; still thinking about them for 2014.  Leaning towards them would be a better way of saying it.  I need to decide for Waaagh!PACA and this is the way I'm leaning.  I've already put up that warpfire dragon stuff.  I'm still playing with my 2000 point list, but here was a first draft of a 2500 point list.  I'm leaning away from the dawnstone/reaver bow/potion of strength on the general, as well as the 5 man dragon princes and the level 2 death wizard.  I am leaning towards maybe using a BSB on a griffin, though I only have the one charmed shield and I like it on the general (can't have him dying before his mount after all).

Anointed of Asuryan, General, Flamespyre Phoenix, Dawnstone, The Reaver Bow, Charmed Shield, Potion of Strength

Dragon Mage of Caledor, Level 2, Dragon Armor, Enchanted Shield, Dispel Scroll, Gem of Sunfire

Mage, Level 2, Lore of Death, Power Stone, Cloak of Beards, Elven Steed

6 Ellyrian Reavers, musician, banner, bows and spears

6 Ellyrian Reavers, musician, banner, bows and spears

6 Ellyrian Reavers, musician, banner, bows and spears

6 Ellyrian Reavers, musician, banner, bows and spears

6 Ellyrian Reavers, musician, banner, bows and spears

5 Dragon Princes of Caledor, full command, star lance, dragonhelm, banner of the world dragon

Flamespyre Phoenix

Flamespyre Phoenix

I think this list would be fun to play.  The Flamespyre Phoenix doesn’t have the combat oomph of either the hydra or the frostheart (which is the best of the three), but the ability to blow away large chunks of blocks is cool.  It is a weapon of diminishing returns, but they can still fight and with 4 flying monsters, there is still a great ability to take out remnants late game.

I think the potion of strength combined with the reaver bow for a one turn 3 shots at strength 8 is cool.  Not sure where I would put it to use, but it would restrict someone’s interest in popping out a character or having a big monster running around.  Problem is the character will spend a lot of time marching and therefore not shooting.  But if I gave him combat stuff he would rarely be using it as the phoenix do their flying thing.  But at least a combat build could help with the phoenix's lack.

The dragon princes are there just for a bunker for the death wizard, since he can’t have an eagle.  Thinking of dropping the banner of world dragon as its 2 more knights, but it doubles as miscast protection since that’s a magical effect.  They still move fast, and with a musician, can always book it.  Took the star lance so they could shove into a monster or smaller unit or character if needed.  Star lance isn’t as effective as it would be on one of the mounted characters since the dragon prince already has a lance, but the ignoring armor could be just what the unit needs to push through that extra wound.

The list is lacking the +4 to dispel, but I really think that third phoenix is where it’s at, better than a second dragon would be – and much cheaper.  With the anointed starting with a MR of 2 and a free 4+ ward save really makes him death magic proof.  Does suck that he doesn’t have the Prince’s leadership of 10, and the charmed shield can’t be used in combat (which shouldn’t matter much).

I would be able to port most of my dark elf army over… I already have the reavers.  I also have the dragon in that warpfire dragon in need of a little paint love.   I would have to make 3 phoenix, one of which would need a fighting platform for a warlord.  I would also need to make the mounted mage and the dragon princes.

The hobby of the dragon princes in where I come up with the problems.  I hadn’t included any cold one riders for the reason that I didn’t want to have the second mounted unit to confuse my opponent since I have all those converted models.  This would create the same issue.  What I need is something that is a rat on a wolf.  My first thought would be to make another centaur style model, like the dark Pegasus.  Unfortunately, I don’t think that the rat ogre/marauder horse combination would work.  Those rat ogre torsos with arms are way too large for just a cavalry base.  Maybe I could use the better space wolf-wolves and use an armored beastman body to make a centaur – with a stormvermin head?

What they did to the dark elf book probably actually helps me out.  Warlocks could be fun, as could putting all of my characters on mounts instead of always worrying about the dark pegs getting shot.  Have to decide soon though, just a few months until WaaaghPACA.  Till then, I guess the hobby posts will tell how I decided.

What If Chaos Daemons – 2500 points

Eventually I plan to make a Clan Pestilence themed army.  I’ve been bouncing around between Chaos Warriors or Chaos Daemons, as nurgle is the obvious theme.  After getting my butt kicked by that Chaos Daemons player at the August Contest of Champions, I was playing around with the Chaos Daemons list.  Thought I would post if up as a fun little thing.  I may keep going through the armies, we’ll see how my interest takes me.

Great Unclean One, Level 4, Lore of Death, Exalted Gift, Lesser Gift

Epidemius

25 Plaguebearers, musician, standard bearer, banner of swiftness

25 Plaguebearers, musician, standard bearer, banner of eternal flame

4 Beasts of Nurgle

4 Beasts of Nurgle

4 Plague Drones, musician, standard bearer, plague proboscis

4 Plague Drones, musician, standard bearer, plague proboscis

Simple, straightforward list.  For the great unclean one I would use a vermin lord.  The plaguebearers would just be plague monks on 25mm bases.  For the beasts I would make up some new rat ogre conversions, as my ogre models all have scryer tech built in.  I am thinking that using some left over tyrnaid bits would work well, along with converting some of the forgeworld nurgle trolls that I’ve picked up and am stashing.  For the plague drones, I would use the drones but would just put plague monks on the back.  For Epidemius I would use the old plague priest on pox rat special character that doesn’t exist in the current book.

I think it would be a nice, clean and simple looking list.  I’m not sure that Epidemius is actually needed, that his 200 points could be better used in more beasts and some furies (which would be plague monks with wings or something, can’t reuse my jump packs as they need 25mm bases).  But those would be easy to switch out.

I actually already have most of it.  I’m sort 5 plague drones, and maybe some plague monks, but I think I have the majority of it.  I could probably flush out what I was missing for less than 100 bucks, especially if I could get some cheap plague monks.

Now I just need to finish my Clan Scryer Chaos Dwarves!

What If Lizardman – 2500 points

First I want to note that this list assumes that the FAQ will go back and fix the giant hole – that terradon characters can no longer join terradon units (or Ripperdactly units).  I believe that this was done in error, since Tiktaq’To’s rules still are written assuming he joins such a unit, even though he doesn’t actually have a rule allowing him to join.

Slann Mage-Priest, Lore of High Magic, BSB, General, Focus of Mystery, Reservoir of Eldritch Energy, Harmonic Convergence, Soul of Stone, Book of Ashur, Banner of Swiftness

Tiktaq’To

Skink Chief, Ripperdactyl, javelin, light armor, enchanted shield, egg of quango, warrior bane

Skink Chief, Ripperdactyl, javelin, light armor, dragon helm, potion of strength, luckstone, shield

Skink Chief, Ripperdactyl, javelin, light armor, Sacred Stegadon helm of Itza, dragonbane gem, shield

10 Skink Skirmishers

10 Skink Skirmishers

10 Skink Skirmishers

10 Skink Skirmishers

10 Skink Skirmishers

10 Skinks, banner

10 Skinks, banner

10 Skinks, banner

10 Skinks

10 Skinks

4 Terradon Riders

4 Terradon Riders

3 Terradon Riders, Tiktaq’to’s ambushers

4 Ripperdactyle Riders

3 Ripperdactyle Riders

3 Ripperdactyle Riders

This is a Flight of the Valkyries list, and I think would look amazing on the table.  The massive ripperdactyles leads to one of two things happening.  Either a wonderful gang-banging of some key units, or some horrible frenzy fails leading to a loss of lots of points.  But either way, I think it would be a blast to play, with the slann jumping from skink unit to skink unit trying to keep up with the needs of the ripperdactyles and the 6 units and 4 characters flying around and every angle – though not really doing much I expect.

What If – A new segment

So sometimes I get bored, or I hear something on a podcast or from a friend and that leads me to play around with an army list.  Sometimes it will because something just kicked me butt.  This tends to be with the newer armies, but sometimes with something that’s older.  I won’t post every list that I come up with, but I will post some, just for fun.  I don’t claim to be any sort of expert though.  Maybe something I put down will trigger something for your own use.

I’ll drop the posts in between events, or when I have another gap.  This might make the lists a little out of date when I post them, and while I will try to make sure things are still correct given new FAQs, I don’t promise it to be so.

Vampires in the CoC comp

In my last post I included the 2013 Comp system. This week we are having a little fun with it. Please note that all of my listed comp negatives are before adding in the 30 comp points (so a -10 comp score is actually a comp score of 20 and a -40 comp score is actually a comp score of -10).

I built the following list in an attempt to make both a list that could win with a maximum possible comp penalty. I see lots of ways to get a lower comp score (a single unit of 800 slaves in a -151 comp loss for only 1600 points for example), but wanted to see what I could do and still think I could win 3 games. So here is the list:

Strogoi Ghoul King, General, Skabscrath, Aura of Dark Majesty, Terrorgheist

6 Tomb Banshees

295 Zombies, musician, standard bearer

2 Terrorgheists

This list comes in at -103 comp [-35 for 7 screams, -6 for 3 terrorgheists, -12 for ethereal units and -50 for unit size]. That’s enough to eat up the 30 points for comp and the maximum 60 points of battle. Practically speaking, the maximum score possible is I believe only 130 points; therefore, this list really has a maximum score of about 40 points – that’s paint and sports. I can’t believe this list would gain full sports, as there is a section for list strength. I also don’t think with the 20/0 system it will able to gain a full battle points. I think it’s possible for this list to win 3 games and get a score of 0 in terms of actual play. I’d be disappointed to play this list and find they stopped counting comp once a 0/30 was reached.

The idea being this list would be to use the size of the unit to hide the banshees from magic items use the unit stretched out to hide the terrorgheists, allowing maximum screams into the units being tanked by the zombies. The 1 level of magic basically means no magic will be cast, but that’s ok as all he could do would be to raise more zombies. I think 6 rounds of screaming could gain enough points to win. The comp, which this list ignores, also acts to protect this list. After all, a restriction on warmachines means terrorgheists will survive that much longer.

I don’t think I’ll be able to convince anyone to take up the list though, and I don’t have 3 terrorgheists to skaven ‘count as’ the army. Oh well. I might just have to do it myself. I could use my dragon on a tray with the rat ogre as the strogoi and my 2 terrorgheists as the terrorgheists. Then I just need to scrounge up 295 slaves/clanrats and something to use as the tomb banshees. So I guess I really just need to paint the 2 terrorgheists – though at that point does a full paint score even matter?

The list isn’t really that good… but it’s funny.